Working With Resin Epoxy Over Canvas I Need Guidance

2" thick over 6ft! That's gonna be alotta dough man! You'll definitely have to do it outdoors and if you can pour 2" at all you can't do it all at once, I'd imagine no more than 1/4" at a time. Keep in mind the catalytic reaction generates a tremendous amount of heat, that's one reason you can only pour so much at a time. Also the vapors are quite flammable. You realize how heavy that sucker will be, at least 200 lbs I think for something 5'X6'. Keeping bubbles out of it will be quite a challenge as well. Maybe you should consider just mounting your painting to some acrylic sheet.

I think what you need to be looking at for more info isn't examples of paintings covered in resin but rather large objects encapsulated in resin such as Damien Hurst's shark, that will give some ideas on how to handle large resin pours.

Thanks David, I probably won't attempt it on my larger paintings until I try it on a very small one first just to see how it reacts and sets up, this will give me some starting point into planning a large pour or multiple pours as you suggested. Yes I saw the cost of resin and it's not cheap. I would have to rule out anything that would not hold up to the outdoor elements like we get in Florida, heat in the 90's and lots of rain and humidity. That's why I'm thinking 2" thick.

These paintings are going to hang on my red shed wall where I am creating an outdoor space. I recently completed a 875 sq ft drip painting on a slab of concreted and the shed is the backdrop to this where I want to hang some of my art and make it a part of the outdoor space.

I will check out Damien Hurst's shark.

You should look at UV stability as well, most plastics break down relatively quickly with lots of exposure to the sun's rays, maybe you can apply a UV coating to it after. I think 2" thick would be major overkill, even 1/2" might be more than you need. Here's another idea. Sandwich the painting between two 1/4" acrylic sheets and seal the edges with resin or something else, you can even get acrylic sheets that are already coated with UV protection.

I could see the canvases in a more abstract and organic way. Dipping them into the resin and let it drip off hanging them like wet laundry. They would look at sculpture as well. I admit I have not used resin this way nor with fabric. Now I am dying to try it out. Have you considered painting on panels? Please come back here and show us your end results.

Good point David, UV stability is a concern. I guess that if a thinner pour would hold up to the elements I would consider that. I kinda am envisioning a 3d type effect and was thinking thick because of that as well.

Hmm,that might be a possibility as well Iris, especially considering the cost. I have considered doing a large spray painting (aerosol grafia painting) on the panels but it might clash with the slab painting. Plus I have like 16 of these canvases I painted and no where to display them other than taking them outside and then having to roll them up again and store them out of the elements.

I'm pretty sure once I do one of my small paintings in resin I will have a better idea as to how I will want to proceed with this project.

I will share the results here, I'm almost tempted to go pick up a gallon of resin today as I'm waiting for the roofers to come and start a new roof for the house and I took time from work to be home. :-)

You also might consider something like this Rust Bullet Clear Shot, which is an exterior coating with UV protection. I have some, but have not yet tested it extensively. You can apply it over paint, but you would definitely want to test it on some scrap/throwaway paintings to verify that it did not react oddly with your particular paint/canvas combination.

https://www.rustbullet.com/rust-bullet-clear-shot-quart.html

I have experience working with Resin and have used this method to make photo tiles and on a few paintings.

Work in an area with good ventilation, and recommend wear a mask during the pouring as well as gloves. You do not want to get this on you or your work station.
Resins and hardeners vary depending on manufacturer. Start small to get the hang of it and get a feel for how much you need to cover your space.

Most are a 50/50 recipe (Resin and Hardener) Once poured into the container stir for at least 5 min until the cloudiness disappears. Depending on manufacturer you will have 15 - 20 min to pour. It will get tacky as it hardens like honey and is unable to be manipulated.
Have a bucket of water handy. Once you see smoke coming from your mixture put the container in cold water. The smoke can be dangerous and the cold water helps speed up the hardening process.

Have a brush handy to help move the resin over the artwork. Too much resin and you will have excess form along the sides. Why you can remove it when dry with an exacto knife or other it can become tedious. Most of the resin will even itself out over the artwork but I use a small paintbrush to help it along.

Air bubbles form when mixing and while most rise to the top and disappear, some will stay. I use a lighter to go over the area as the heat causes the air bubbles to rise to the top and pop. This take practice and too much heat and you will see the waviness affects after curing. It is up to the individual as to whether or not the air bubbles add to the art work.

If you are serious about this, and are working with flat canvas with no "frame" setting up a vacuum system would be the most effective at getting a consistent coat but is costly getting the equipment and takes practice.

Curing can take 24 - 72 hours. I love the finished look on my artwork.

Best of luck

Ellen

The thing about two inches of resin over a stretched canvas would be the weight on top of the canvas itself -- like trying to make a brick on a trampoline -- the physics of the give in the fabric, over successive layers might not work in your favor, causing sag, possibly cracks, discontinuities in depth.

So, bonding to a hard surface would seem to be the solution there, which I go into in my next comment.

2 inches ? -- why so thick? -- I'm not seeing the advantage of 2 inches, over, say, multiple coatings.

I have never worked with resin, but, with my fluidism paintings, which where acrylic, I used clear varnish, up to seven or so coats, applied one at a time, carefully, with a brush, with the painting laying perfectly flat in a protected, ventilated space, where debris, dust, etc. could not fall on it.

If I were to go for a two-inch resin cover, then I think the way I might go about it would be sort of like pouring concrete. I would mount the canvas on a frame, build a form around the edges at the desired thickness of the final resin coating, level the painting exactly in a safe, protected, ventilated space, pour the resin into the form-fitted, stretched canvas, and then wait for drying. The form would be tight all around the perimeter of the canvas, and I think that I would brush a coat of the resin or whatever into the crack to seal that completely, allowing this to dry first, before doing the main pour(s?).

I just cannot see 2 inches, though. I would build a form that extended about a quarter inch above the plane of the stretched canvas, creating a finished result that, I assume, would resemble a shiny pane of glass over the painting, where the form was now a permanent edge to the final work.

But, again, I have never done this -- I have never done resin.

What's hell about final coatings is hair, dust, stray brush bristles (if you brush), bubbles, and partially dried coating-residue off the edges of the brush from over brushing (if you brush). With these threats, I'm amazed that I got the results that I got in those days. (^_^)

Consider this collection of mine, for example: https://pixels.com/profiles/robert-kernodle.html?tab=artworkgalleries&artworkgalleryid=209324

What I did here was bond the painting-panel (museum board with acrylic paints) to a sanded, furniture-grade, sealed, plywood panel, where I also painted only an edge large enough to be hidden under the painting panel -- leaving most of the sealed wood raw to form better adhesion for the painting panel. I applied the strongest acrylic bonding paste I could find to the area under the painting panel, carefully pressed on the painting panel, covered with protective panel, on which I applied lots of weight (sort of like a printing press), allowed to set up a bit (couple of days, lying perfectly flat), and then, keeping flat, starting the final coating layers that I described above, allowing each clear-coat layer to dry completely, before adding the next. ... Yeah, I clear coated the back and edges of the whole thing too, which I did first. It was a somewhat long, tedious process that I went through for both sides of the finished work -- one side with no painting, and one side with the bonded panel. Oh, on bonding, I mean applying paste over every square inch of the area where the painting went , NOT just around the edges. Okay, too much information, maybe.

Thank you Becky I'll keep that brand in mind.

Ellen thank you for such a detailed step by step explanation, very helpful.

Robert you and David are right, this will make the painting very heavy maybe 2" is overkill and I really don't want to spend a small fortune on this resin which seems crazy expensive to me.

Robert the frame making to pour into is something I was thinking of doing so that info was helpful.I really need to just get into doing a very small one as I need to see the results and how it visually looks on the drip painting designs I have. I don't really want to go through a long tedious process, I need to see fast results 24 to 72 hour till it dries is long enough for me.

Yes, do a test run first -- very smart idea.

As for not wanting to go through the tedium, well, you get what you go through. (^_^) ... I don't want to go through all the tedium of turning on the shower, lifting my legs to step into the tub, handling the soap, applying it all over my body, rinsing, drying off, dressing, unlocking the front door, walking out to the car, inserting a key, turning the ignition, and, oh God!, all the tedium of driving through the traffic to get where I want to go!! I just want to wake up, magically get clean, and be transported at light speed to my destination.

The thing with these sorts of abstracts is that the process of making them is quite fulfilling, while the process of setting them into reality to preserve is precisely tedious -- the part I hated most. The result of going through that tedium was fulfilling in the long run. These things are a combination of instant gratification and delayed gratification. The preserving process can actually take longer than the creation process.

Oh well, enough wisdom. Off to seek my fortune as a motivational speaker now [yeah, right, good luck with that].

Lol! Thank you Robert, you know it's not half as fun without your input.

Btw, yes the tedious stuff kills me but the gratification afterwards makes it worth while, this afternoon my central a/c froze up for the 3rd time this week and I first cleaned the evaporator coil after thawing them,nothing, it froze again. Then I changed out the thermostat for a new one, again nothing, froze up again, so finally I had to go outside in the rain and disassemble the condensing unit covers and remove the overhead fan assembly and gave it a thorough coil cleaning with chemical cleaner and a good rinsing .

That's as far as I could go with it,after drying time and assembly I go to start the unit and smoke starts to come from the outside unit!!! Yikes, I thought it's toast. So again I disassemble the fan unit and discovered a lead wire had disconnected. I assemble the unit and it started up, it's been an hour and the temp. went from 82` to a comfy 75`. The condensing unit was really dirty.

But yeah, I get it, you got to go through the tedious stuff to feel "cool" in the end. :-)

Mario,

RE:.."Working With Resin Epoxy Over Canvas"


I thought you were considering using resin epoxy, as I've been toying with.

Instead as a coating, using resin as a medium, by adding color (oil paint) to the epoxy

Roger, they make dyes specifically for resin, I'm not sure how oil paint would react to it, could be iffy. Acrylic paint might be a safer bet.

Hello Roger, good to hear from you. What I'm doing is creating and designing my summer outdoor pool patio space after I discovered a buried slab which I did a huge drip painting on 875 sq. ft to be exact. Now I have this red shed wall as a back drop to thois space and I wanted to hang some of my abstract drip canvas painting I did but I want to make them outdoor weather proof, so the resin was the idea to do that.

Now that said, I really like resin art and have seen some really beautiful tables and pours which have magnificent colors and that is something I am really curious about and would also like to try. In fact I wanted to do an expoxy resin patio floor but the condition of this slab was so poor that it was not an option. I've seen some amazing epoxy/resin floors some even 3d, really cool stuff.

I'm not sure how the entire process goes but acid staining on concrete is one way and then the resin epoxy over that and sometimes they even place art work that gets encapsulated into the floor.

Of course I'm always looking for that cheaper, affordable short cut to achieving similar results as in this case. :-)

David,

For years and many satisfied "roach" sales, I've added a touch of black oil paint to epoxy gel for the head, and a touch of raw sienna oil paint to the epoxy gel "feathering" the copper legs.



By the way, I've tried acrylic paint....It doesn't blend properly

Those roaches are very cool Roger, I could see one totally encapsulated in resin.

Very realistic, how did you do the legs?

P.S. I may never look at a tasty mussels the same. Lol!

I did see some paintings on a wall with a thick layer of resin, an individual painted flowers on a 6x6 canvas. A wall mural was created with 36 individual images, mounted to make a square and each one image had a thick layer of resin. Brought out the color and brought cohesion to the different images. Very striking both from afar and close up.

I think you are on the right path to creating something unique

Ellen

Ellen, some thing like what you described is what I am envisioning. I have a variety of different size smaller paintings on canvas and canvas board which I am considering doing something similar.

The challenging ones are going to be the larger ones of course. The whole idea behind this is that I want to display my art work outdoors and who knows what that can lead to.

I have displayed outdoors before but it's to much work worrying about wind and rain. I want to set them and forget them. :-)

Bond canvas to quarter-inch, furniture-grade, plywood that you seal first. Paint with several layers of resin, allowing dry time between layers, and be done with it. I know nothing about resin. [So what-the-crap-good are ya!?]

For extra future fun, when you're bored with them, donate the works to storm chasers, instructing the chaser guys to place paintings ONLY in the paths of F5 tornadoes. I'm sure there's some sort of promotional angle there.

How about a simple outdoor fabric waterproof protection?


By the way, the roach legs are made with copper wire with a layer of colored epoxy gel applied with a toothpick

Mario,

Seriously now, if you did decide to go with bonding the canvas to wood, then the most basic question I would be asking is, "What sort of glue would be chemically compatible with both wood and oil-on-canvas, and be archival, and strong, and compatible with resin, and resistant to the elements?" -- dog gone it, you have to be a chemistry expert sometimes to figure this stuff out !

I used to obsess on this sort of stuff, hence my art crap will probably remain in a perfectly stable appearance for its perfectly useless lifetime of hundreds of years.

Anyhow, here is a product that I might consider:

https://www.talasonline.com/adhesives-and-fasteners/conservation/beva

In the future, if you do any more of these, plan for the display, before you do the painting -- again, tedium that allows your finished creation to be most fulfilling. What I mean is that if I did this, then I'd get my canvas mounted how I wanted it, before I started painting, and have a plan for how to make it stable and enduring for viewing, before I ever touched paint. Man, that was tedious typing all those keys to say this !

Robert I have been thinking along those lines as you mention of bonding to plywood and then applying thin coat of resin but the F5 tornado thing has not occurred to me. Lol

Roger, those roach legs are hyper realistic. I don't about the simple outdoor weather protection Roger, especially at this moment. What I mean is this whole project started as a means of making an undiscovered buried concrete slab a usable space. This past weekend I purchased some outdoor furniture for the new patio, a large 12' x 12' canopy and a 2 person matching swing chair and a glass table with umbrella and chairs and everything mixed in well with the slab drip painting.

Then today a 45 mph unannounced thunder storm passed through about 1 hour ago and in 4 minutes wiped out my patio, well not every thing put I lost my brand new canopy and left nothing but it's twisted metal frame which will be taken to the recycle yard. I also lost another 10' x 10' canopy over my koi pond which I just dismantled.

So now this whole project is on hold until such time as I can afford to build a more weather proof space, 4' x 4' pressure treated lumber set in concrete as posts and plywood and metal roofing x 2 because I need to create shade for my koi as well or they will slowly bake in the Florida sun as their water heats up, project for tomorrow.

Today's loss exceeded $260 not counting what I'm into it for labor.

I still want to see some of my paintings hanging outdoors so I'm still open to suggestions. :-)

Robert your in the future advice would have come in very handy before I started. Lol!

For the time being my attention has shifted to my seven Koi fish which need a new shade solution for their pond since yesterdays 45 mph winds destroyed the canopy I had up for them. So today I'm doing a 2"x4"s post and frame for a v notch metal roof over the pond that will be 8' x 8', once I complete this my attention will be back on the subject of this thread.

This experience has reminded me that when it comes to the weather all considerations must be taken into account. I don't want my art work to be flying through the air and I don't want it getting wet or damaged by the sun's rays, all of which has brought me to consider resin over my art to protect it. :-)

All said I live in Florida and no matter how much consideration one puts into outdoor projects this is hurricane territory and I know first hand how even the best built homes get destroyed, another thing to keep in mind.

The weather is looking better and I completed the shade roof over my koi pond. Now that that is out of the way I can go back to working on weather proofing my canvas paintings I want to display on my red shed wall in the outdoor patio area I recently painted. The video shows the damage from the winds the other day.I also added a few elements like tiki torches and solar lighting and a table,umbrella and chairs. The umbrella is in the shed as I didn't want it to end up like the canopy did.

This is what I have decided to do, I'm going to first stretch the selected paintings onto a wood frame I will make myself. Once the frame is completed I will seal the wood with a clear poly spray sealer. Then I plan on stretching the canvas painting over the frame and stretch it place. If that goes well since I have never done it before I will seal the canvas with a clear UV acrylic spray sealer and once that dries I will spray with a clear gloss poly urethane coating.

The cost of the resin is just to much to do all my paintings as I have to many of them and they are large so if this method works out I will probably do all off them and then maybe try resin epoxy on the small ones which I also have a lot of.

Roger, It turn out your suggestion is the one I am going to run with for now. :-)

Mario,

Are your paintings oil paintings?

If so, then I would avoid using acrylics near or over them as sealers or coatings.

The chemistry of oil drying and acrylic drying are different. Oil paint oxidizes over a longer time, to completely dry, while acrylic (I think) evaporates over a shorter time. Oil paint, then, doesn't really get completely set for a long time, whereas acrylic sets really fast. You don't want acrylics fast-setting chemistry going on over top oil's slow-setting chemistry, because, as I understand it, this can cause instability, thus, adhesion issues. At least, this seems to be the traditional wisdom. ... Now oil over acrylics is okay, because, as I said, acrylics set fast, and so an acrylic base is a done deal for the slow-setting chemistry of oil to do its thing on top of.

Acrylic Robert, oil takes to darn long to dry for my liking. :-)

Btw, just got back from home depot, I had a new card and a 10% off coupon that was burning a whole in my pocket, so I purchased all the materials I need to have a picture hanging soon, that would be in like how quick does this sealer take to dry I hope not to long.

I purchased 12 8'x1 1/2 pine lengths of wood to make the frames. I could not find Krylon acrylic sealer as they don't seem to carry their products anymore so I settled for the rustoleum crystal clear enamel gloss, I bought 4 cans. I also purchased hanging wire "copper" and hooks. This should get me to do 3 or 4 of my largest paintings. Now the hard part, which ones do I do first? I guess I will have to take them all outside and unwrap them to decide.

Problem, it's hot as can be right now outside, like 93* and so very humid I am drenched without having done anything yet. My 8ft. table is long enough for my first painting but not wide enough so I moving to the ground to work. I need to come inside every 15 minutes to cool off.

double post

First frame is just about done. Now for the stretching of the canvas.I don't have a canvas stretching tool so I will just use a pair of pliers with and electric stable gun.

Mario,

That drip painted patio looks especially great under the lights!

Sorry about the canopy. We had a storm take out one when we lived on the MS coast. Mangled that thing to heck and back!

Looking forward to seeing your paintings hanging.

Acrylic, ... great, I see no problems now. Carry on.

Oh, one other thought about the drip/splatter painted slab -- space alien landing pad -- light er up and wait for extra-terrestrial company to arrive -- serve green beer and fish eyeballs to your otherworldly guests -- for party music, use your power tools -- they love this stuff.

Thank you Kathy, oh yes I am done with canopy this one lasted three days up. :-(

@Robert, Lol! Alien landing pad!

So here is the compilation video of today's work. Man was it hot, 89` put it felt like 103` with the humidity.

The thing I find the most interesting about this whole process is actually the painting on the slab and the painting I was able to hang, it was the first drip painting I did it's 7 ft. wide by 4 ft. tall aprox.. What's interesting to me and what I tried to capture in the video is some of the creatures that appear in both the slab painting and the wall painting. This really blows me away, it's not some thing I can explain but it's as if one painting is a continuation of the other, this theme runs through all the drip paintings I have done, some 16 to date.

I know this sounds weird, to me it's supernatural in nature and I don't understand it but I am fascinated to the max by it.

I like the above results so much that I want to do something a little crazy. My art stacked on closet shelves and under beds in the house doesn't do a thing for me. I want to display my art so it can be seen, all of it. I don't want to keep it out of sight any more.

Exploring all possibilities now, feel free to chime in with your ideas. I have paintings of all sizes from 8" x 8" to 7 feet x 5 feet.

Anything goes!

Mario,

It's not supernatural, but rather the MOST natural of all.

Think about it -- liquid, gravity, the laws of physics, fluid dynamics -- these are the constraints on fluid chaos, and so you are bound to see these constraints produce self-similar results over and over again.

Life itself, as we know it, rose up from these constraints -- most of Earth's surface is water, remember. Consequently, in these forms, we see our own primal ancestry -- the forms from which we arose, and even if you believe that a higher power had some input into all this, still this does not change the constraints of this power's process. However fluid or physics came to be, these are the the repeating rhythms resulting from them.

I consider such paintings the most stark form of realism, as opposed to how most people might view them. They are the most direct, least abstract, in-the-moment revelation of the fundamental forms of reality.

Robert, what you say is true,in that truth though is a most interesting,most humorous design construct that likes to repetitiously manifest itself in a very familiar manner.

When one starts to ponder how that is, after frantically throwing paint and allowing it to drip in the least thought about or planned manner that it becomes very mysterious in nature and thought provoking, which is what makes me say supernatural for lack of any better word to call it's source.

Btw, I have finished the newest compilation of paintings which I arranged on a 4' x 8' pvc sheet and attached it using silicone and I built a frame using select pine wood which I sealed and attached to the pvc with screws and silicone, over that I placed a 4 'x 8' optic sheet of 1/8" acrylic over silicone and screwed it in from the top and then screwed the pvc from the back onto the wood frame.

Now comes the hard part, where to I put this?

So this is what I ended up with, a 4 foot by 8 foot outdoor framed compilation of paintings that will sit outdoors in front of my house.

Hopefully, nobody steals it. If so, track 'em down and demand payment.

So to recapture this thread was supposed to be by Clear epoxy resin but scratched that idea because at like $100 per gallon it would have been to costly for the amount of paintings I have and there would have been no turning back. This will end up costing now only $500 for two large 8 x 4 foot panels in optic acrylic and pvc composite boards that I framed out and made water proof*.

Not to mention this is not as permanent as the resin and I can probably salvage my paintings which are on stretchers if I needed to as I only used silicone on the corners to adhere them to the pvc backing board.

It's a good amount of work but I have an outdoor display now which will be put to the test in Florida weather.

Robert, I will be pissed off if they steal it but flattered as well. Lol! I already had some visitors stop and admire the work up close.

Hi Mario,
I've been experimenting with resin the last couple of years.
I've personally discovered that resin is difficult to use with canvas. This is why, resin is heavy. The canvas naturally says in the center from the weight of the resin, the larger the canvas the deeper the sagging. I tried multiple methods of reinforcing the back of the canvas to eliminate the sag. For the most part I achieved what I was going for. The problem is the wooden frame on the edge is always the highest point. And the resin didn't stay at that point. So no matter what I did, I still had little areas on the edges of the top of the painting that did not have resin in it.
So for resin work I switch to cradled wood panels. With wood there is no sagging. The resin spreads evenly. I personally prefer art resin, and it's expensive. I've done half an inch deep layers of resin and it's very difficult to get it perfectly level so it's the same thickness on both sides up and down. It's far easier to spread one thin layer across the entire surface. The hardest part and real kicker is making sure that there is nothing on the surface of the resin before you seal it into whatever it's going to cure inside of. Dust, hair, anything floating in the air, all of that will disturb the perfect mirror finish. So I've gotten comfortable with the little torch to blow everything out. but you have to be very careful with the torch because if you stay in the same spot for too long you will scorch the resin. It's all a huge learning curve but I'm really enjoying resin work. Good luck to your adventure!

Another alternative is several layers of polyurethane. Polyurethane is definitely cheaper but it does not have the thick glass surface that resin creates. It's doed create a nice shine but if it's too thick is will make the color foggy.

Thanks for sharing that Angelina! I think with what you point out about the weight would have been a total failure for me if I went the resin route on this particular project. I still want to do something with the resin but I will limit it to a something that I use a solid backing for. The pvc is water proof but it's very flexible as a backing which is why the acrylic sheet I used worked out so good after I added a frame of wood to stiffen it up but also served as the point where I sealed the edges with silicone.

Oh, also the concern about contaminating the pour with me is high, as it is I had to get my power leaf blower to blow out the area of dust and acrylic and wood shavings from drilling screw holes in it before placing the acrylic over the white pvc backing and working outdoors the wind can carry all kinds of stuff into the painting. A big resin project is a big concern for sure. I will have to try it though. :-)

The poly has a yellowish shading to it though when it cures but I had considered it. I like the spray paint called crystal clear I did spray this onto the paintings before placing the acrylic over it and it really made the colors pop, a very good product and it goes a long way and dries very fast with no mess.

The other concern is the UV stability which not all the epoxy resins have. I came across one called famowood glaze which was the cheapest but it was only for interior use.

I was really impressed with the acrylic sheet I used called optic clear which home depot sells in sheets of 8' x 4' and it cost $139 each. The pvc is pretty dense and sturdy if used in smaller pieces than the full sheet as it's 1/2" thick and the acrylic was 1/8" thick, it comes thicker and the price jumps up to double with the 1/4" thickness.

I have a full sheet of acrylic and pvc left with more paintings but some of the art work was done on thick water color paper and some on canvas board so I don't know how I'm going to pair those in the same frame or if I will cut down the sheets and do two frames? I just hope it's not as hot outside as yesterday, I actually dropped 5 lbs. yesterday is was so humid and hot. :-)

A whole new set of challenges have developed with this work in progress. How do you arrange in one confined space 20 different paintings in different mediums in different sizes and thickness with different subject matters in different styles?

How do you glue or attach these paintings some of which are water color paper others are canvas board?

I am just pushing through this with what's on hand but I think I need to make a run for some spray adhesive.

I do have the order and orientation of the art works done.

This frame will be different then the one I completed yesterday because I want the acrylic to lay directly on top of the artwork without wood edge. The wood edge may go ontop of the acrylic this time for firmness and the acrylic siliconed directly on the edge of the pvc board.

Again I hope I don't screw this up as it will be a costly mistake if I do both in art works and cost of materials. I need something to do in between working outside and coming inside to cool off and this thread is allowing me to gather and focus my thoughts.

I have gotten as far as attaching all the paintings to the backing pvc sheet and I have layed the acrylic top sheet on and have sealed the edges with silicone which I am letting set up a little before I cut the pine frame boards which I will screw in from the top going through the acrylic sheet and attaching to the pvc board beneath. I will also attach with screws from behind screwing in the opposite direction as the top ones.

I have completed this project. A total of 33 paintings over an area of 98 sq.ft of framed art were completed in two days at a total cost of $600., my closet space has be regained and my art can now be view by the general public or at least those that pass or drive by the front of my house. I'll this this much it's a lot of work especially when the temperatures in the 90's and humidity very high.

How do you lose 10 lbs. in two days without dieting? do this. :-)

I celebrated with Alina by going to our favorite neighborhood pizza joint and sharing some ice cold beers and a great pizza.

I will post the final video after I have some expresso cafe'.

Now I only have 15 more large paintings to go. These I will simply put on stretchers and spray a few coats of crystal clear over the surface of the painted canvases and will hang them outdoors.

Then I have to figure out an efficient way to display some 35 sculptures. It never seems to end with art. :-)

I just went outside to take a last look at the installation before calling it a day and to my dismay I see that one of the 8' panels is warping. The one I completed today which when I stood it up and attached to one 3" pvc post and ran a screw from the frame to the post at the center location of the frame leaning it's weight against the post.

So I decided to take it down and lay it flat on the ground with shims under the corners hoping that it's own weight will bend it back to it's flat position. The humidity is a factor but so was just attaching to one post. The other panel I completed yesterday was not warped but I was able to attach it to two post under the horse sculpture and place a screw to each of the two post.

Tomorrow I guess I will position the display onto two post and see if that resolves the warping other wise I may just have to sandwich another wood border all around the perimeter of the frame and screw together the two wood frame edges for rigidity, it's the pvc board which is flexible and allowing the warping.

The acrylic panels have also accumulated condensation over the exterior of both panels, I have no idea how this will behave with the air on the inside under the acrylic and how this will effect the artwork if at all. I did take the extra step of spraying all the art works with coats of crystal clear enamel to protect them if somehow moisture worked it's way inside since these frames are not hermetically sealed in some type of vacuum. All I have right now is a lot of questions ?????? only time will tell what happens next.

If I would have given much more thought to this project before starting it I probably would not have ventured into it considering the expense and all things that could go wrong. The elements can be very unpredictable at times. Looking on the bright side I still spent but a fraction of what it would have cost to frame 34 paintings and then they would not be outdoor safe either unless I spent even way more money to have them made weather proof.

This is also why I like outdoor sculpture so much, I can make something out of steel and then not worry if it gets wet and rusted. :-)

Warping, after applying a particular finishing coat to a particular material, can be very annoying. When coatings dry, they can shrink and the film, as a whole, acts as a strong, thin ratchet-tie like force to bend stuff that you think is rigid.

I had this problem with one of my multi-media pieces that I did years ago. I bonded a painted paper panel to a piece of foam core, and I finished this entire thing with a couple coats of clear acrylic varnish. After drying, the whole thing warped into a length-wise concave panel, which horrified me to start with. But it was such a perfect concave bend that I eventually considered it a unique feature of the work. It won third-place in a community art contest. I was lucky there, but this led me to be really careful to have my main panels fixed rigidly enough to escape warping.

I don't know whether this is your problem, or if it's just a problem with the moisture content of the wood itself.

It would seem to me, that to prevent warping, both the front and back of a panel would need equal coating

I hear you Robert and Roger and I agree with you in regards to the coatings, in this case though there were no coatings applied to the pvc backing or to the acrylic. What I did coat was the actual art works to protect the painted surfaces. This created another minor problem of sorts which I will explain. The warping is a result of the flexibility of the 1/2" pvc backing which to that I attached my pine wood frame in hopes of making it more rigid.

When I mounted the large heavy panels leaning on those pyramid post in the front yard where they are part of another series of outdoor sculptures it created stress point on the panel and that was bending the pvc panel which was also bending the wood frame.

So after a good nights sleep I decided to find another place to mount these large panels. This fixed the warping issue and I really like where they hang now! They will be better protected and much more stable.

This really came together this morning, these panels really work on the red shed wall and the surrounding painted slab which compliments the color scheme of the space.

It was not easy hanging these panels, I hung them with lots of 3" exterior screw drilled through the wood frame all around and through the metal wall panels of the shed and wood studs behind them. No more warping.


Now, where I wish I would have done things different is in deciding to use 3M 45 general purpose spray adhesive to glue my art paper paintings to the pvc backing. What happened is that since I coated these paintings on the front side with the crystal clear enamel and then I placed the acrylic sheet panel 8' x 4' on the paintings and it has a kind of static cling to it, it created like a suction effect on the surface of the art work that when the acrylic sheet shifted slightly in position because of the stress points I mentioned before, caused some of the paper paintings to slightly separate from the backing and slightly lifting along some of the edges of the paintings glued to the pvc backing. It's hardly noticeable though as they are clinging to the acrylic as well, how could I have planned ahead for that?

Over all I am extremely pleased with the outcome of this project now! :-)

Here is the video showing the final resting place of my art.

Sorry, I screwed up the previous video upload. This is the final short video showing the panels in their final resting place in the outdoor space I created for them.

Roger S,

I think you are right. My experience with warping resulted from coating only one side. So, in my case, in those days, you would have been exactly right.

Mario,

I like your gallery -- I'll call it The Magna Carta Outdoor Gallery des Art (^_^)

Mario, this is the coolest thing I have ever seen, so much work you put in to it too, you should be very proud! I bet you will have so many visitors to your wonderful art installation. Fantastic!

Gaby, thank you so much for that wonderful compliment! :-) What's great about it is that I really do enjoy my own art and I had it collecting dust on a closet shelf now I have it there to enjoy and when I want to show it to others, well there it is. Lol!

Glad you liked it Robert! Truth be told I'm pretty exhausted, it was a good amount of work and it was very hot this past weekend,the part that was especially challenging was the part where you have 20 paintings in a variety of sizes and you have to make them all work lined up and spaced in a some what orderly symmetrical kind of way in a limited amount of space and use all the paintings. :-)

The bottom panel has less paintings because those were all stretched canvas and that's all I had, the other panel, the top one was the remaining lot of canvas boards and thick art paper paintings.

Now you need to book some uppity art parties out there. Never mind selling anything -- it's just a place and an excuse to throw an outdoor party.

I'm not really a party person, by the way, but if I were, then that abstract-painted slab/patio thingie would be a cool place for one. It could be really wild, like a carnival, maybe, with weird and interesting people -- freaks, nerds, goth people, circus people, regular people, you name it -- the occasion could reflect that slab. Of course, I'm just fantasizing. Such a reality could be problematic on many levels too, to say nothing of still MORE work required to pull it off.

So, in lieu of that, sit back, relax, and have a cold beer out there, as you savor what you've done.

Lol! Yeah Robert I'm not a big party person either. I will have family BBQ's and hang out around the pool and cool off that's for sure. :-)

Today I noticed that one of my lager paintings which is on a stretcher that I attached to the pvc backing came loose and shifted down and at a slant. The painting is one on the bottom row on a corner. I can live with it for now but once I get sick of it I might have a shot at fixing it. For now I'm leaving it alone and hoping no other ones shift or come unglued. I used clear silicone on the back of the painting on all corners, I'm surprised it came loose.

To fix it will require me to unscrew the panel from the shed wall and then I was thinking of measuring carefully and from the back of the pvc panel drill a small hole to get a piece of steel wire through to manipulate the painting to rest on the bottom border because at least it will be straight. I can then seal the hole with silicone and reattach the panel to the building, it's the bottom panel at least I won't have to muscle the upper one again.

I can't quite picture your assembly, but silicone near acrylic throws up a red flag for me. I know that acrylic paint will not adhere to silicone caulk -- I could relay a cursing incident in my several or more home improvement projects, but I think I'll leave it to your imagination.

Robert it was a pretty basic assembly, attach stretched paintings to the pvc large panel and then place the full sheet of acrylic over it sealing the edges with more silicone, the acrylic panel rests right on the artwork. but since I stretched my paintings after I painted them the canvas on the back does have acrylic paints. Hmmm maybe that's what happened because I used a good dab of silicone and then pressed the painting to the pvc panel and it dispersed the glob of silicone.

I'm taking this in stride, no sense in getting upset over it, this was experimental after all. I just hope I get no more surprises. :-)

Btw, the painting just might release itself because the silicone failed on 3 of the 4 corners and if it does it will fix itself, fingers crossed.

Worst case scenario is that I cut out the artworks one by one and salvage all the paintings, I don't see that happening though. :-)

I was surprised again today when I checked on my art display, the one painting which detached itself from the pvc backing shifted yet once again and fell right in place along the bottom edge of the picture frame and lined itself up almost perfectly all on it's own, what a relief! :-)

Sometimes you just get lucky!

This project is now complete.

Time to move on to something else and I will close this thread tomorrow. :-)